Realm Loyalty, /anon, /who and other shite that feels like... shite

From a response on a bug report, that will probably never be read other than reposting here:

Rowan wrote:

Boulderling wrote:This is related to our Realm Standing system, which only allows you to buy a house up to a certain size depending on Realm Standing. More info soon

Yuck. Yuck! YUCK! I've read through the in-progress Realm Loyalty notes, and have basic feedback:
FORCING people to play one realm or be PENALIZED on basic game features will only push some of us away from the game, or at least reduce morale toward the game and willingness to recommend the game to others.

Loyalty should comprise of bonuses to ENCOURAGE loyalty, not PENALIZE players by taking basic game features away from those who don't wish to stick to one realm.

That list already has me considering whether I wish to continue playing on BT, after playing here daily since last October. Housing is one of my favorite things about DAoC, and limiting me to a tiny fucking house because I refuse to play only one realm, is a huge detraction to me. The unlikelihood of being able to obtain a house on Eden is one of the largest reasons I had no interest in playing on Eden when my former guildies left BT for Eden last year. I bought a villa here as soon as I could squeak out the funds to do so, as the (Hib) cottage and house don't have enough vault slots, and are round and awful to place decorations in. Making a villa impossible unless I forego my Mid toons... fuck that.

There are a host of other things, the more I read and absorb:
-Finally adding the ability to have skins and glowies you can put on your gear, but denying them to anyone that enjoys more than one realm, is utter fuckery.
-Making the account vault only one page if you enjoy more than one realm, is also fuckery, especially combined with only being allowed tiny housing with little storage. Double the punishment for ENJOYING MORE THAN ONE REALM.
-Making self-affecting charges 15% stronger only if you forego other realms, is more fuckery.

-Enemy examine is complete and total bullshit fuckery every way but loose. You can't fucking /who your own realm for shit, but you can look at an enemy to see what size their party is? Are you fucking kidding me with this?! And eventually be able to tell what classes comprise their party? Even worse. Geez, why don't you just put the enemy's group members on the map in a different color, while you're at it, so you can see exactly where they are. Might as well!

-Boss Check for DF will be abused up one side and down the other. What happened to organically happening across enemies to fight? You can't effectively /who your guild mates (even on the guild social menu, still) or realm mates, but you can check whether the enemy that owns entrance to DF is killing bosses, and follow their trail accordingly. Seriously?

I'll say it again: Trying to FORCE loyalty is Not The Way.

Also, the changes to /who and /anon still fucking suck and make the realm feel desolate. I can't adequately put into words how much I despise them. I can't tell if it's worth starting a group for something, even in my own damned guild, because I can't tell where half of anyone is.

Seriously, revert the /who and /anon stuff, and just implement a real fucking realm swap lockout timer. Low enough for folks truly wanting to play the other realm to not be unjustly kept from playing (because we're mainly adults with lives and limited gaming time), but long enough for those just wanting to spy on who is where on the other realm to be greatly inconvenienced if they try to swap, and then swap back, because the swap timer counts in both directions. (e.g. 15 minute lockout per swap, so a swap to look and then swap to return would cost them 30 minutes total, making the info likely useless)

The changes to remove the supply system and force gold expenditure again for siege combined with having to again give up pack space to also buy and carry wood - expenditures that only a few will spend coin for and carry the cost of the realm's siege and repairs on their backs... sucks. Who the fuck wants to HAVE to PvE post-50 in order to RvR? Not this gal, I assure you. This was one of my most-hated features of original DAoC. Because you always saw the same few folks willing to hump wood out to keeps to repair them. The same few folks footing the costs of the repairs, and for the siege to go raiding other realms. That shit just isn't right, when so many folks just want to be carried in everything, including spending actual coin to aid the realm.

I whole heartily disagree. I could not disagree more. In fact, I would like to see them have the nerve to completely realm lock the server. You choose your realm and if you want to swap you delete everything off the previous realm. Sick of this pansy cross realm nonsense.

As a single realm loyalist, I can get behind this. Punishing players for not interacting with a (custom) system - e.g. gating existing content such as housing behind it - feels a little off to me. Let's keep in mind the problems we want Realm Loyalty to tackle and find elegant ways to address them.

I've no insight in the discussions behind this, but I'm assuming it's a mix of:

Loyalty: In an of itself is good for the community within a realm. Players interact with the same people more often, feel more invested taking back "our" keeps, etc. So some incentives to stick to one realm are healthy.

Spying: An often disdained part of the game, where enemy players obtain information about your location/plans prematurely in order to foil them, e.g. arrive at keep defense early, attacking a Legion raid in progress, etc. which can frustrate players. Likely wholly inevitable, it's still healthy to provide players with some tools to limit this (even placebo ones).

Note that we probably want to distinguish between the two kinds of spies; people starved for action (changes such as showing fights on the realmwar map are a great way of reducing the incentive here) and people looking to grief (harder to identify but accounts that /who a lot vs playtime are a little sus.)

I'm sure we can build a list of rewards that are enticing enough for players to delve deep into the Loyalty system, so it can achieve its goals without heavily penalizing those that dabble in different realms, or are still looking for their home. Personally, I've got high hopes for the Realm Loyalty system, and it's worth investing some effort into.

--------------------------------

Attempting to be a little constructive, here's a list of some reward suggestions, split up into a few categories:

Cosmetic: Cosmetic rewards to "show off" your loyalty. Highly enticing for certain groups of players, and adds visual discovery/reminder that the Loyalty system exists.

• Exclusive titles
• Exclusive skins, e.g. realm guard cloak/armor
• Epic armor skin
• Cosmetic pets
• Command to show off loyalty (spell effects woo)
• Realm-specific spellcraft failure explosion
• etc.

Quality of Life: Unlocks that reduce friction. Generally means reducing time spent waiting, preparing, or affording things. These are great filler rewards since no one dislikes them, but are often not big ticket rewards.

• Lower housing cost
• BP merchant discount
• Teleporter discount
• Daily instant Visur warps
• Extra specswaps
• Lower lfg/advice cooldowns
• Extra account vault pages
• XP bonus for characters below certain levels
• etc.

Exclusivity: Ways to interact with other loyalists and insulate yourself from realm spying.

• Loyalist-exclusive chat channel
• Loyalist-exclusive battlegrounds
• Advanced /anon features
• Loyalty-marked craft orders/consignment listings
• Marked as loyalist in /advice, /lfg, etc.
• etc.

Gameplay benefits: Direct gameplay benefits for your characters. I'd personally steer away from these as it'd be a horrendous source of complaints, but they're very enticing.

• Bindstone out of home frontier
• Exclusive buff NPC/items
• etc.

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(I don't think I've addressed everything in OP, the cost of siege comes to mind but Zyfrig already mentioned staff isn't particularly excited about it being gold at the moment.)

Everyone here has very good arguments, def need some serious work put into this for all statements involved.

Hopefully this thread gets the attention it needs and the devs find a solid solution that can tackle all the problems listed.

Rowan wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2026 1:30 amFrom a response on a bug report, that will probably never be read other than reposting here:

Player wrote:

Player wrote:This is related to our Realm Standing system, which only allows you to buy a house up to a certain size depending on Realm Standing. More info soon

Yuck. Yuck! YUCK! I've read through the in-progress Realm Loyalty notes, and have basic feedback:
FORCING people to play one realm or be PENALIZED on basic game features will only push some of us away from the game, or at least reduce morale toward the game and willingness to recommend the game to others.

Loyalty should comprise of bonuses to ENCOURAGE loyalty, not PENALIZE players by taking basic game features away from those who don't wish to stick to one realm.

That list already has me considering whether I wish to continue playing on BT, after playing here daily since last October. Housing is one of my favorite things about DAoC, and limiting me to a tiny fucking house because I refuse to play only one realm, is a huge detraction to me. The unlikelihood of being able to obtain a house on Eden is one of the largest reasons I had no interest in playing on Eden when my former guildies left BT for Eden last year. I bought a villa here as soon as I could squeak out the funds to do so, as the (Hib) cottage and house don't have enough vault slots, and are round and awful to place decorations in. Making a villa impossible unless I forego my Mid toons... fuck that.

There are a host of other things, the more I read and absorb:
-Finally adding the ability to have skins and glowies you can put on your gear, but denying them to anyone that enjoys more than one realm, is utter fuckery.
-Making the account vault only one page if you enjoy more than one realm, is also fuckery, especially combined with only being allowed tiny housing with little storage. Double the punishment for ENJOYING MORE THAN ONE REALM.
-Making self-affecting charges 15% stronger only if you forego other realms, is more fuckery.

-Enemy examine is complete and total bullshit fuckery every way but loose. You can't fucking /who your own realm for shit, but you can look at an enemy to see what size their party is? Are you fucking kidding me with this?! And eventually be able to tell what classes comprise their party? Even worse. Geez, why don't you just put the enemy's group members on the map in a different color, while you're at it, so you can see exactly where they are. Might as well!

-Boss Check for DF will be abused up one side and down the other. What happened to organically happening across enemies to fight? You can't effectively /who your guild mates (even on the guild social menu, still) or realm mates, but you can check whether the enemy that owns entrance to DF is killing bosses, and follow their trail accordingly. Seriously?

I'll say it again: Trying to FORCE loyalty is Not The Way.

Also, the changes to /who and /anon still fucking suck and make the realm feel desolate. I can't adequately put into words how much I despise them. I can't tell if it's worth starting a group for something, even in my own damned guild, because I can't tell where half of anyone is.

Seriously, revert the /who and /anon stuff, and just implement a real fucking realm swap lockout timer. Low enough for folks truly wanting to play the other realm to not be unjustly kept from playing (because we're mainly adults with lives and limited gaming time), but long enough for those just wanting to spy on who is where on the other realm to be greatly inconvenienced if they try to swap, and then swap back, because the swap timer counts in both directions. (e.g. 15 minute lockout per swap, so a swap to look and then swap to return would cost them 30 minutes total, making the info likely useless)

The changes to remove the supply system and force gold expenditure again for siege combined with having to again give up pack space to also buy and carry wood - expenditures that only a few will spend coin for and carry the cost of the realm's siege and repairs on their backs... sucks. Who the fuck wants to HAVE to PvE post-50 in order to RvR? Not this gal, I assure you. This was one of my most-hated features of original DAoC. Because you always saw the same few folks willing to hump wood out to keeps to repair them. The same few folks footing the costs of the repairs, and for the siege to go raiding other realms. That shit just isn't right, when so many folks just want to be carried in everything, including spending actual coin to aid the realm.

I only play one realm and I don't even like the idea of being able to play more than one realm, but I completely agree with everything you said here.

The /who and /anon, and the lack of global kill spam, make the server feel completely dead even when it isn't.

As you said, loyalty should be rewarded with extras, but you shouldn't be punished for having toons on another realm.

I bought 1000 duskwood the other day to bring out to repair a keep, and after seeing how much it cost me, there's no way I'd be able to afford that if not for the free 100p from i50.

Players enjoyed the old supply system and removing features that players enjoy is not a good strategy for maintaining server population. Players enjoying a feature should be the most important thing to consider. Players also really enjoy the Taskmaster system, and that ought to remain in the game at launch.

Wow, that's just nonsense ^^


To start with, being able to realm swap at will is stupid for several reasons: spies and other nuisances looking for any loophole to figure out where enemies are (it's often solo players doing this and sharing info, anyway).


It doesn't penalize anything at all; it's your own choice. Being able to switch realms whenever you want is what's absurd, not the other way around.


Regarding housing, it's debatable at best—if DAoC weren't a RvR game focused on capturing and defending keeps. But house size has zero impact on RvR, so whatever.


Same for skins: it's neat, but zero impact on RvR or PvE, so not important and definitely not a priority, lol.


Ah, enemy examine: the only relevant point. I'll admit that perk is pretty strong. Getting info on enemy composition is super useful, though it will mostly benefit min-maxers and group compositions, with very little real impact overall to be honest.


Boss checking should be baseline in my opinion, like Rank 1. It could make organizing PvE/PvP runs easier and help keep the server active (Black Desert Online has a similar system, and it's pretty nice overall).


As for /who and /anon, I don't get the fuss. When I open the Social tab, I could see everyone in my guild, even those set to anon (back when there were still people in my guild, RIP )


A lockout timer is useless unfortunately, because with Discord, TS, etc., info gets passed outside the game anyway. Not to mention dual-boxing to bypass timers and keep spying. So /anon is fine as it is. Even outside RvR, sometimes you just want to play in peace without getting whispered every 5 minutes—so again, that's your opinion, not everyone's.


Now for this... I've never heard such bullshit, excuse my language, but it's ridiculous.


The supply system wasn't viable in my opinion for many reasons: RvR map wasn't suited for it, it favored zergs too much, and bad timing/fails could completely ruin an attack. Sure, it could've been improved, but I'm glad they reverted to a system where you actually spend gold. It drives the realm economy and indirectly creates more PvE events and server activity.


If you want to spend all your time in RvR, that's your choice, but organizing PvE runs, XP sessions, etc., is where you help the realm the most. Lastly, considering the amount of gold you make between salvaging (since you can salvage everything) and raw gold from killing a player (around 14-18 gold last time I killed a solo player), that's equivalent to 18-20 mobs at level 50. So you actually make more gold in RvR than in PvE, anyway.

As someone suggested, selecting ONE realm after first login, would be veery classic

Player wrote:As someone suggested, selecting ONE realm after first login, would be veery classic

Surely, but the thing is, times have changed since 2001, including ourselves, and what a lot of people will simply see is they are cut from 2/3 of content.


The way of nudges is way better in my opinion than "you can't access this content". Classic DAOC died long ago, for good reasons, while we cherrypick in our memories to give a whole "that was the good old time" feeling to the thing, it never was that perfect and was very flawed. So, classic has to be adapted somehow in a lot of ways, and i don't think the realm lock for everybody and no way to access the other realms will be benefitial to the server on the long run.


Also, talking about the long run, we won't have seasons on BT, characters will keep on gaining RP and RR and that will push out new players very quickly at some point once they realize they are fighting war machines with forks, and that will also discourage a lot of people to create new characters at some point too, that means no matter what, the server is condemned on the long run if nothing is done to get around that reality, so anything that tends to limit even more that longevity isn't welcomed at all in my opinion, and strictly forbidding the other realms is part of that.


Balancing things is difficult, listening too much to the community's ideas isn't a good way to do so, i hope BT's team has a real plan and wil stick to it first before constantly falling in the trap of "let's listen to what gimmicks and fake good ideas people have suggested today".